Canada’s Horse “Welfare” Group in Dubious Company (Or Reason #189,743 Why We Cannot Trust Unified Equine or the IEBA)

Canadian and American horses are at risk

Canadian and American horses are at risk

Written by Heather Clemenceau (with contributions from the CHDC)

All Artwork Copyright Heather Clemenceau (use with permission only)

Canada’s Horse “Welfare” Group in Dubious Company

Domestic and wild horses in Canada are at risk of being in grave danger. Back in May 2010, the Canadian Horse Defence Coalition (CHDC) published a paper called “What You Didn’t Know About Canada’s Horse Federations” –  exposing a deceptively named Canadian organization called the Horse Welfare Alliance of Canada (HWAC).

The report included some eyebrow-raising facts including:

  • HWAC’s formation being in response to Canada’s anti-slaughter movement, prompted by the CHDC’s first investigative report, “Black Beauty Betrayed” in 2008.
  • the true purpose of HWAC, which is not horse welfare, but the promotion and support of North America’s horse slaughter industry;
  • proof of HWAC’s affiliation with Canada’s largest horse slaughter plant, Bouvry Exports;
  • HWAC’s founder, Bill DesBarres is a Board member with the Alberta Equestrian Federation, and thus manoeuvred to include all provincial horse federations under HWAC;
  • Bill DesBarres’ reaction to authentic footage obtained from Bouvry Exports in the CHDC 2010 report, “Chambers of Carnage” was to dispute its authenticity, saying: “I’m not convinced that those pictures were taken at Fort MacLeod. These things are produced by people who have a different agenda. They are against animal agriculture, period.”
  • HWAC’s affiliation with extreme pro-slaughter groups in the U.S. under State of Wyoming Legislature Republican Sue Wallis.

South of the border, DesBarres American counterpart and horse slaughter advocate, Rep. Sue Wallis, has been hard at work laying the groundwork for horse slaughter plants to re-open in the US after a 6-year moratorium.  Despite failed attempts at re-establishing slaughter in Wyoming and Mountain Grove, Missouri, Rep. Wallis, the recently-resigned President of the United Horsemen’s group, is refocusing her efforts on alternative locations in Southern Missouri, Oregon, New Mexico, Nebraska, Iowa, Washington, and Oklahoma.  It has recently been revealed that the site of that location in Missouri is Rockville,  a town of less than 200 people,  and the site of a now-closed beef processing plant.  Wallis is counting on the fact that the plant is located in this small town where 50-60 residents were previously employed at the plant,  which was closed by the owners as a result of USDA pressure.  Via a press release from the IEBA,  Wallis announced that “Americans Eat Horses, and the World is Hungry Enough to Help Us Save Them.” If Americans ate horses and there was a buck to be made, horse meat would be in grocery stores long ago. There was nothing stopping the selling of horse meat during all the years they were slaughtered in the US.  Wallis claims horsemeat will resolve all hunger problems in the US,  and her supporters in United Horsemen’s group also claim that it could be exported to Africa and solve hunger in that continent.  Why doesn’t she just create a business proposal to sell horsemeat to impoverished African countries?

The problem with these types of simplistic “solutions” is that they can’t possibly account for all the problems in Africa. Like food distribution problems, government corruption, AIDS, the effects of globalization, overpopulation, gang warfare, coup d’etats, the role of the IMF, and the lowest average wages in the world. 23 million starving – we’d have to slaughter every horse in the US and Canada, plus dogs and cats, every year, and even that wouldn’t be enough to sustain them over time. Most African countries have had aid provided to them for many years, and yet the circumstances never improve for the people. Pro-slaughters think you can throw horsemeat at anyone and they will literally rise up from the grave in good health and prosperity. Wallis’ rejection of food safety regulations would be laughable if not dangerous.  Food safety regulations are to protect humans,  not animals,  and the veterinarian sources she cites are not able to make determinations as to the acceptable limits of drug residues,  if any,  because they are not toxicologists.  The reason she is so irrational on food safety is that if food safety regulations were enforced with  horses, she would not be able to set up her slaughter empire!

Incidentally,  Wallis is running for re-election in Wyoming,  and her professional bio lists her as a “writer” and a “poet.”  Well,  I’ve read her so-called poetry.  IMO, cowboy poetry sucks because they can’t rhyme anything with “saddles.” It’s even worse with Sue trying her hand writing about “Mustang meat-patties” and “BLM Burgers.” I’d rather be hog-tied than have to listen to a Sue Wallis poetry reading.

American horses are exported to Canada for slaughter

American horses are exported to Canada or Mexico for slaughter

While Wallis has previously moved around, working under the guise of several organizations, most recently Unified Equine LLC (which apparently no longer has a web presence apart from its Facebook page), she is attempting to re-brand herself by creating yet another organization to further her pursuit of horse slaughter in America: The International Equine Business Association. (IEBA).  This organization now includes Belgian monetary backer Olivier Kemseke of Chevideco, an international horse slaughter corporation and Canadian Bill DesBarres, of the ironically-named Horse Welfare Alliance of Canada. (HWAC).  Chevideco, the owner of the Dallas Crown horse slaughter facility, owes the City of Kaufman, Texas numerous fines for the environmental grotesqueries of their plant.  HWAC is also public representative of Claude Bouvry, owner of Bouvry Exports in Alberta – Canada’s largest horse slaughter plant.  Bouvry is also owner of many large horse feedlots in Alberta, Shelby, Montana and Fallon, Nevada.  As such, we are confident in asserting that these three individuals do not represent the horse industry – they represent the meat industry!

The last few months have been busy for the aptly named “Slaughterhouse Sue” Wallis.  Not content merely to confine herself to arranging duplicitous business enterprises, she has been given her walking papers by the town of Mountain Grove, MO, she has crumbled under pressure on a radio program, written endorsements for feedlot owners under investigation and slaughterhouse owners who have had their operations suspended for cruelty violations.  In 2011,  she was the subject of an ethics enquiry in her own state by an animal activist.  On the United Horsemen’s page on Facebook, she has started calling anti-slaughter legislators in Congress “socialists,” after a press release announced the cancellation of the 2nd Summit of the (Dead) Horse event.

Consumer research firm Neilsen found that in March 2011, a typical Facebook user was on the site for a staggering 6 hours and 35 minutes at a time.  I suspect Sue Wallis spends considerably more time on Facebook than the typical user,  or even the typical politican,  who tend to be quite observant of commentary from other Facebook users and constituents.  A selection of Sue Wallis’ Facebook posts taken from various sources reveal that any individuals who express concern for the environment,  drug contamination in food,  or animal welfare are likely to come under fire.  Once Wallis tires of battling animal welfare groups on Facebook,  “sics” her United Horsemen’s minions on other Facebook users she doesn’t like or who have challenged her.  In another incident,  Wallis exercises questionable judgement when she once again asks her minions to “reach out” to a woman who has slaughtered her own horse and crawled nude inside the carcass to pose for pictures.  Some photos featured in the website even showcase the woman posing with the horse’s heart,  as if she is about to consume it.  Even posters on the United Horsemen’s page feel the distaste at her request.

Sue Wallis asks United Horsemen followers to "reach out" and support the right to commit horse necrophilia.

Sue Wallis asks United Horsemen followers to “reach out” and support the right to commit horse necrophilia.

"Slaughterhouse" Sue asks her followers to harass people who disagree with her.

“Slaughterhouse” Sue asks her followers to harass people who disagree with her.

Sue Wallis asks Facebook followers to harass this email account holder (email account has been partially redacted for privacy)

Sue Wallis asks Facebook followers to harass this email account holder (email account has been partially redacted for privacy)

One wonders how the whiny, finger-pointing Wallis can regularly travel away from her constituents in Wyoming, to further her own business interests in other states.  When objection to her plans reached critical mass in Mountain Grove Missouri, Wallis was given a “get out of town card,” after she hatched the bizarre claim that the local YMCA director received death threats from “animal rights activists.”  Of course, the Director himself denied that any such threats were made by anyone – he even told the investigating police that no one had threatened him.  But this is not what the followers of the pro-slaughter faction wanted to hear, so the fabricated story of death threats was made to cover-up for the truth that they were kicked to the curb.  Sue Wallis left town with the following advisory: “Discussion’s over.  Make all the noise you want.  We’re going into business.” Should we be surprised that  Wyoming ranks 48th out of 50 states in terms of corruption risk. 

Despite a published agenda for the radio program, Wallis’ snake-oil showmanship was exposed in a radio broadcast that featured, among other guests, Wayne Pacelle, President & CEO of the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), leading to her public meltdown  and abrupt departure from the show.  She claims that she was ambushed, which seems surprising – who agrees to speak on a radio program with the belief that there will be no other guests, and with the pre-program guest list posted online?

Greasewood and the Sandwash Basin Horsres

In a move that was not only ill-conceived, but couldn’t be more ill-timed, Sue Wallis pointed her slaughter house interests towards New Mexico, after failing in Missouri.  New Mexico is the home of the infamous Chavez Feedlot, where horses are shuttled from many points in the U.S. to slaughter plants in Mexico.  In March 2012, Animals Angels exposed horrible conditions there where horses that were rejected at Mexican plants, were returned to the Chavez feedlot and left to die.

Wallis then went on to urge the New Mexico Governor that “instead of charging (feedlot owner Dennis) Chavez with negligent mistreatment or animal cruelty, and trying to ruin his business…if these groups really cared about horses they would be honoring and applauding him, as we do, for providing care and sustenance to horses that would otherwise have no chance of survival.”  Read the entire letter  The problem is that Mr. Chavez has established a clear pattern of abusing horses, as can be seen from a USDA Freedom of Information Act inquiry.  Additionally, he is now the subject of an animal cruelty investigation which revealed profoundly disturbing footage of severely emaciated horses, unable to rise, expiring on his feedlot without the humanity of euthanasia.  Chavez didn’t provide “care” or “sustenance” to any of these animals in the video, as they were too weak to rise to eat or drink and remained prostrate on the ground.  As if that was not going to be embarrassing enough for her, she then tried to discredit the investigators in her comments.

In another humiliating incident for slaughter advocates, New Mexico slaughter plant owner Rick De Los Santos,  who has lost his license to slaughter cows due to humane violations, now wants permission to slaughter the quintessential flight animal – the horse.  Mr. De Los Santos’ explanation of the reason for which he has had to lay off his entire staff  at Valley Meats is not credible either, yet certainly pro-slaughter advocates are not constrained by adherence to facts.  However,  never one to miss an opportunity to promote a pro-slaughter agenda,  Sue Wallis’ Unified Equine Facebook page boasts a recommendation of Mr. De Los Santos that makes me concerned for my own cranial integrity – yes,  I’m about to *facepalm* yet again.  Not content to merely make recommendations for those businesses and individuals who have been sanctioned or fined by various US government agencies,  Slaughterhouse Sue is well-known as a politician who glorifies those who are employed in any capacity in the slaughter industry – including many kill buyers,  lauded for sainthood.  Someone should explain to her that many of these so-called heroes have incurred fines to the tune of $100,000 or more in the course of their saintly occupation.

Unified Equine Promotes a business that has been suspended for humane violations to cattle

Unified Equine Promotes a business that has been suspended for humane violations to cattle

The Governor of New Mexico, Susana Martinez, has asked the USDA to deny Mr. De Los Santos and Valley Meats’ request for a permit.  In addition, New Mexico Attorney General, Gary King, has stated that “a horse slaughtering plant in Roswell is a terrible idea. Such a practice, while not illegal, is certainly abhorrent to public sentiment, and I strongly suggest it be abandoned.”

More defeat dogged Sue Wallis and United Horsemen counterpart, horse-trainer Dave Duquette, when it was announced that the 2nd Annual Summit of the (Slaughter) Horse, a conference designed to convince the general public that eating pets is a good thing, would be “rescheduled” to sometime in January of next year.  That’s not a rescheduling in our books; that’s an outright cancellation.

In 2011,  Patricia Fazio, PhD, President of the Cody-based Wyoming Animal Welfare Network, filed charges last year that alleged that Sue Wallis, a Wyoming State Representative, attempted to defraud horse slaughter supporters out of $30,000 in a bogus truck raffle and that Sue Wallis had sponsored and voted on bills in which she had a financial interest.  Although the truck allegations were dismissed the remainder of the investigation is still running at full throttle against the embattled Wyoming State Rep.

From a Canadian perspective, DesBarres’ association with Wallis and Kemseke earns him a blazing refutation as a representative of Canadian horse owners and horse groups. Together, the  alliance of Wallis/DesBarres/Kemseke maintains that horse slaughter is necessary in North America in order to deal with the numbers of homeless or “unwanted” horses – the IEBA is a soapbox upon which they stand to deliver their dubious claims to an unsuspecting public.  The reality is that slaughter is not an end-of-life solution, but one that fulfills a demand for horsemeat in the EU and Japan – a lucrative demand that has filled the pockets of foreign plants such as Belgian Chevideco, who apparently expect taxpayers to fund the costs of their business enterprises as well as any environmental clean-up that may entail.  Typically,  Chevideco invests no money of their own, and pay imaginative accountants good money to circumvent paying taxes while on U.S. soil;  Dallas Crown continued to bedevil the town of Kaufman despite efforts by Mayors Paula Bacon and  Harry Holcomb and the Kaufman City Council.  By virtue of his connection with the IEBA, DesBarres and HWAC are actively endorsing and supporting individuals and businesses that have flouted the law, often with disdain for taxpayers.  So long as the criticism is going to rain down on these three (and it surely is) I suggest that they consider building themselves an ark.  The more I read about the whole slaughter enterprise,  the more I realize I’m in need of some sort of prophylactic.

Paint Horses

The IEBA is now offering a “Charter Membership” which includes, among other “benefits,” “Legal defense network and protection from activist attack.”  Much of their mission statement and purpose was developed in lockstep with United Horsemen and the Cavalry Group, both extremist pro-slaughter organizations.  Horse owners, please be advised that this group, in order to implement its business plan and charter, will stipulate that you have your pleasure horses and pets tracked from birth to death, all to satisfy foreign countries’ appetites for horsemeat, whilst lining the pockets of Sue Wallis, Chevideco, and Bill DesBarres and the Horse Welfare Alliance of Canada.  The statements made by both Wallis and DeBarres constitute a logician’s nightmare.  Neither Americans nor Canadians will withhold humane veterinary care of our horses just so we can ethically say they are “healthy and safe” to eat so we can sell their bodies at the end of their lives.   Myself,  I will never apply for membership in my provincial organization again,  nor will I purchase liability insurance from a carrier that indirectly endorses slaughter.  I will obtain liability insurance from my own insurance carrier.  We, the compassionate horse people of Canada, must use our time productively to get Bill C-322 passed!

If you find any of the above information unacceptable to you as a horse owner or advocate, please be aware that the Horse Welfare Alliance of Canada is allied with the following business partners – please let them know that you hold them all to a higher standard than that maintained by an alliance with the Horse Welfare Alliance of Canada,  the International Equine Business Association, and Sue Wallis:

Provincial Organizations

British Columbia
Horse Council
Orville Smith
Lisa Laycock
Executive Director
27336 Fraser Highway
Aldergrove, BC
V4W 3N5
Phone: 604-856-4304
Fax: 604-856-4302
Toll Free: 1-800-345-8055
Equestrian Federation
Dixie Crowson
Sonia Dantu
Executive Director
100, 251 Midpark Blvd S.E.
Calgary, AB
T2X 1S3
Phone: 403-253-4411
Fax: 403-252-5260
Toll Free: 1-877-463-6233
Horse Federation
Terry Fagrie
Mae Smith
Executive Director
2205 Victoria Avenue
Regina, SK
S4P 0S4
Phone: 306-780-9244
Fax: 306-525-4009
Horse Council
Geri Sweet
Bruce Rose
Executive Director
145 Pacific Avenue
Winnipeg, MB
R3B 2Z6
Phone: 204-925-5718
Fax: 204-925-5703
Equestrian Federation
Allan Ehrlick
Deborah Thompsen
Executive Director
Suite 203
9120 Leslie Street
Richmond Hill, ON
L4B 3J9
Phone: 905-854-0762
Fax: 905-709-1867EmailToll Free: 1-877-441-7112
Fédération équestre du Québec
Dominique Chagnon
Richard Mongeau
Executive Director
4545 Ave Pierre de
Coubertic CP 1000
Succursale M
Montreal, PQ
H1V 3R2
Phone: 514-252-3053
Fax: 514-252-3165
New Brunswick
Equestrian Association
Deanna Phalen
Suite 13
900 Hanwell Road
Fredericton, NB
E3B 6A2
Phone: 506-454-2353
Fax: 506-454-2363
Nova Scotia
Equestrian Federation
Helen Smith
Heather Myrer
Executive Director
5516 Spring Garden Road
4th Floor
Halifax, NS
B3J 1G6
Phone: 902-425-5450 Ext 333
Fax: 902-425-5606
Horse Council
Ken Smith
Joy MacDonald
EC Representative
POB 1887
Charlottetown, PE
C1A 7N5
Phone: 902-964-2379
Equestrian Federation
Chris Gallant
34 Circular Road
St. John’s, NF
A1C 2Z1
Fax: 709-777-4558

Mailing address:
Horse Welfare Alliance of Canada
Box 785, Cochrane, Alberta
T4C 1A9

Bill DesBarres: Tel: 403-526-1070 Cell: 403-529-7237

Please support Pro-Horse Initiatives at the Canadian Horse Defence Coalition:

Please support Bill C-322 to end horse slaughter in Canada

Please support Bill C-322 to end horse slaughter in Canada

All artwork copyright Heather Clemenceau (use with permission only)

35 responses »

  1. Pingback: Canada’s Horse “Welfare” Group in Dubious Company | Canadian Horse Defence Coalition's Blog

  2. Thank you for this excellent information, truthful facts, and all you do everyday to end the injustice, greed, and brutal industry. Americans do not want our horses slaughtered, Americans don’t want people who have self serving interests holding an office of government. Americans want the slaughter of equines to end as does the wonderful intelligent, compassionate, and socially responsible people of Canada and our other international communities.

  3. Great Article! Here’s another perplexing idea The Wyo. Rep. came up with:Wallis went so far as to sponsor a Wyoming law, HB0122, which would provide that seized, abandoned,stray livestock could be slaughtered for use in state institutions, or as the Bill refers to it “disposed of”. ” Food safety is the least of Her concerns…

    AN ACT relating to livestock; providing for the disposal of

    estrays, livestock and feral livestock; adding definitions;

    providing for the disposal of meat from slaughter”

  4. You know, I always wonder, how could there possibly be horse slaughter in Canada when we are surrounded by horse loving Federations, Associations and Groups that boost the love and respect of the horse. Well! So today I understand they are holding hands with the devil. I think it may be time to tell these people that if they are not part of the solution “horse welfare” THEY ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM! Great Work Heather. It is time to get the horse industry to care about the horse.

  5. I am ashamed to be a member of the Ontario Equestrian Federation. Unfortunately, most members do not know this.

  6. Wallis is a mental case. She needs to be voted out of office, at least she couldn’t use her so-called representative status as a means to push her agenda. She seems to also expect the parties that are supposed to build the slaughter plant or plants in the US to foot all the expenses. I don’t believe anyone will spend one dime on a slaughter plant in the US unless they are positive that it can stay open. And all of the people that think they will have a job in MO won’t work for low minimum wages. All of the workers at the plants that were shut down in the US were illegal aliens that were paid under minimum wage.

  7. Just out of curiosity. What would you suggest we do? Now I know you living in the city may not understand that horse slaughter is there to set the floor price of the horse market. As I’m sure you probably don’t get the fact. how When the American slaughter was banned absolute chaos ensued. You are probably also unaware that. If Canadian slaughter plants were not taking literal tens of thousands of horses every year. The horses in the northern part of the U.S would either be A). stranded in the U.S or B). shipped (even farther) to Mexico. Cause in the end of all things. The Slaughter numbers have not slowed down in the U.S.Yet registry numbers have decreased drastically. In 5 years after the ban all that has happen is more grade horses are being bred and bred with no purpose The base value has been destroyed. And more horses have been deemed worthless. See you better know where those horses are going to go. You better have a plan. You better understand that there is no way rescues are going to be your savior there is no way,you can expect anything different then what is happened in the states. In fact one could make the argument that it is going to be so much worse. With slaughter plants only to the south of the states and to north of the states. You will have a mess on your hands that will make the U.S look puny in comparison.

    • Why do you assume I live in a city? I live over an hour’s drive outside of Toronto, in a RURAL area. According to your IP address, you live in an area that is more densely populated than the town I live in. Want to try again? So that’s only your first mistake, first of several. ASS-U-ME.

      I’ve got a truth bomb for you – even when the US slaughter plants were open, they sent horses to Mexico and Canada. Where was the outcry during that time? The US was supposed to have presented the EU with a proposed plan for traceability last year, but I don’t believe they did. So as far as I know, the US has until July 1, 2013 and the EU will stop accepting their horses. What is THEIR contingency plan?

      There have been some cases of horses dumped by irresponsible owners. A bullet is cheap and legal. There were stories that papers published citing abandoned horses, yet they were found to be false. In one case in Kentucky, horses were reported abandoned by an old strip mine. Later it was found out that the owners turn them loose to graze there every year, and they were not abandoned. KBs have dumped at least 5,000 horses (that can be approximated) just outside of the Mexican Border in the desert to starve after they were rejected at the border. It was formerly put forth that these were horses used to run drugs, but the truth has now been uncovered – the horse abandonment issue is hugely inflated and a problem that is CREATED by slaughter, not solved by it. Besides, Canada has slaughter and we still have horse abandonment issues, so how can you reconcile that? The AQHA supports slaughter because they WANT people to breed horses to increase their registrations/profit. The AVMA supports it, because they support drug companies and they are the ones doing the AI. There is a group called Vets For Equine Welfare, made up of veterinarians against slaughter, who speak out against the AVMA.

      Many solutions have been proposed, most supporters of the GAO report stopped reading when they got to the part where it recommended a slaughter ban – so ban slaughter and a transport to slaughter. Enact an export fee of around xx.xx dollar value on any horse leaving the country, where xx.xx is a sum that is significant enough to deter illegitimate export but not financially restrictive on actual horse owners. Distribute the money collected to be used for gelding clinics, funds for retired racehorses, owner assistance programs, hay banks, grants for adoption, care of seized horses, euthanization clinics, and PROSECUTE offenders who neglect and abuse. Horse registries should collect a breeding TAX which again, is distributed to cover the above. Although it’s not a major source of donations right now, bequests also help occasionally. And never forget that education is key to responsible ownership. Enterprising business people SHOULD see an opportunity for composting/rendering of horses, perhaps on a mobile basis. Without slaughter, people might start actually TRAINING their horses instead of dumping them at an auction. Obviously, the availability of slaughter is not a preventative for abuse, case in point – the largest neglect case in Texas’ history took place at a property owned by a vet just outside of Dallas, when Dallas Crowne and Beltex were open. I would also like to see offspring that are approved in order to be accepted into a breed registry, which is what the warmblood registries require – when was the last time you saw a warmblood on a feedlot? The fact that breed registries show a decline is positive, but since horses live an average of 20 years, it will take several years to see the effect of the decline. Bouvry and Richelieu have already published an accounting that states that they will no longer accept TBs, ostensibly because of the drugs and the fact that most racetracks have invoked no-slaughter policies. We don’t sell cat and dog meat at the end of their lives; breeding of cats and dogs and irresponsible ownership still plague us, because no solution to horse slaughter is without problems. Animal ownership is never without problems, because there are always going to be people who aren’t willing to look after their animals, and the presence of slaughter does not change that. Certainly slaughter is problematic, no?

      What everyone is whining about is not much different (aside from the fact we are dealing with sentient animals) from what happened to the Airline industry in the US after September 11. Demand for air travel was reduced after the terrorist attacks, while at the same time use of the internet made it possible to book travel plans and compare the prices of the various airlines – this FORCED the airlines to compete on a cost basis. Then of course the airlines experienced dramatic fuel costs and had to cut back on amenities that had been taken for granted for decades. The industry wasn’t expecting any of this and certainly wasn’t prepared, but they were COMPELLED to act or cease to exist. The cessation of horse slaughter would compel similar reaction from individuals, breeders, and others in the industry. You can’t fix slaughter with all the current players. The Trent Saulters and Dorian Ayache’s will always be around, causing transport accidents as we just saw again in Tennessee, running from the law and avoiding paying their fines. The industry is hardly made up of the most outstanding citizens, something I’m sure you’re personally familiar with.

      The point is that, despite the best laid plans, people, governments, and organizations tend not to react until a problem reaches critical mass – that’s human nature unfortunately. Of course, necessity is the mother of invention, right? Lastly, I’m not buying any claims made by Wallis, Duquette or DesBarres, for reasons I’ve already outlined in this blog post.

    • well Scarborough is it?not exactly a small town and the fact that you just said you live a hour drive out of Toronto confirms it…, you got to get a whole lot farther then a hour from Toronto to get to a rural setting no doubt I have family in that area and I know it rather well… So really it has nothing to do with the population you live in proximity of. Actually that only hinders you as far as this is concerned.It means you have no particle experience. in other words you learned it from books,from the Internet, And lets face it the group you end up quoting the most is a group that don’t exactly call it straight down the middle. Yes I know they sent horses to Canada and Mexico. But the not to the vast amounts,firstly. There the states is sending just as many horses to slaughter then before the ban but there are no slaughter houses in the U.S….,hmmmmmm that’s odd isn’t it? Where are those”extra” horses that used to end up in the U.S slaughter houses? Horse numbers have not decreased a bit (Or not to the level they should) perhaps they are in Canada or Mexico Or maybe they starved in the states!?It’s called common sense…, If the numbers have not increased.That means the horses that would have been killed in the states are now being killed somewhere else. That either equals a increase in horse trucked to foriegn countries or they are just getting turned out to die! either way does not bode very well for the comment “The ban is working” I need no numbers that can be bent to fit a argument there is only one logical conclusion…, Horses just do not simply vanish. Now here is something that is a little concerning to me…, It would seem that you are unaware of the amount of horses that are being neglected starved and abused in the states since the ban. You also seem to be unaware of the total decimation of the horses worth after the ban (which only breeds a environment for abuse neglect starvation etc, etc.Yet you give me ,in the same breath examples of “KB’s dumping thousands of horses outside of Mexican borders” WoW! that’s a odd statement is it not? Perhaps your just looking for certain types of abuse? Or abuse only committed by a certain type of person? I can go to about any of the “antis” pages on facebook and dig up ever day instances of abuse and neglect. You cannot deny that. The ban has made things worse. And yet you want to shut it down in Canada? Cause in the end of all things Heather I noticed you dodge one very (And I do me VERY) big question…, Where are those horses going to go? Every horse in Canada has a worthless value…., now what do you do?You can try to bury your head in the sand but after seeing what burying your head in the sand for 5 years (in the states) gets you I would strongly advise against it. Now back to another concerning comment about the AQHA. Yes AQHA has stood behind the slaughter practice. But here where another dose of common sense that will do you good. AQHA understands what will happen when the Base level of a market is destroyed (exactly what horse slaughter is…, the base value) Anybody with a ounce of common sense would say it’s better if the industry goes ahead as planned then watch all the horses become worthless. Goes without saying…,But that in no way makes them the “Profiteers of death” That you make them out to be. They wrote it before it happened. they said “It’s going to destroy the horse market. the seed stock market.” The AQHA said horses will become worthless.” And they also said” You do this and it will have the reverse affect that the pushers of such a ban (HSUS) Hope for” And they were correct. You seem to be misinformed to think that a person could breed AQHA horses(no matter the breeding) And say “well that’s o.k the rest will go to slaughter” That is your conceived thoughts. But if that’s the course you take let me explain why you will lose money hand over fist…, You cannot raise a slaughter horse for the price that the Kill Buyers are willing to give you. It don’t pencil! $1,000 per horse per year yearly cost to keep that animal. And your selling a animal for $800? And it only gets worse for your thought process. Cause guess what? There is not a kill buyer alive that will give you $800 for a weanling! Not going to happen! Every year you have to keep that horse you go farther into the red. It’s a broken business plan. As far as your GAO report saying “a slaughter ban is a plan”. Let’s just look to the states and see how that has worked shall we? You can’t deny it and if you do you only show how out of touch you are as far as this problem is concerned. Cause in the end you got to ask yourself the question. “Where are the horses going to go? Who’s going to pay for this “export fee”? your horse is just been deemed worthless now your asking people to pay to ship them out. Where they going to get shipped out to? Oh wait! I bet you I know! A horse slaughter plant maybe? Cause this is the one thing you don’t seem to relize horse slaughter is ment for Worthless horses. And when you take out the horses worth you have just put them all in the slaughter line. If a horse has worth the price is too great for the Kill buyers to buy them cause they will lose money. The holes in that solution are so great it’s ridiculous. Oh and collect a breeding tax? How you going to enforce that? Registries have dropped drastically. 2/3rds or better. yet the same amount of horses are being sent to slaughter. Guess what that means? registered breeders are not the problem people who breed grade horses that cannot be used due to conformation flaws or disposition flaws are the problem. I do believe you call them BYB. I call them clueless. tell me how are you going to enforce it? See I’m come from the school of thought “You better be able to explain how you expect to carry out your plan and how you expect to pay for it…., You have done neither.

      • Don’t make the mistake of assuming that my online address is the same thing as my physical addy – although I use my real name I’m not prepared to give people a map direct to my front door. Oh, and I’m not listed in any phone directory either. Total.Red.Herring. I don’t live in Scarberia – which is actually part of the city of Toronto and not “north” of it at all. It’s all “mis-direction” really, like the magician’s trick, although not quite as elaborate.

        Why don’t you learn to read a Google map? And since I studied physics, I do actually have “particle experience.” So I feel qualified in stating that your post has very little “atomic mass.” As for the rest of your post, it’s already been responded to elsewhere, although I’m gratified that you wasted so much time typing it out. Next time, use paragraphs………mmmmmm K? Oh, and spel-chek would be good too.

      • WE don’t need a plan, and you need a spell checker. We have rescues that can take care of the number of horses that need it after all the idiot breeders who can’t comprehend the concept of supply and demand go out of business. Not the AQHA, of course, but maybe they WILL stop paying their breeders to breed and breed and breed…… And if you don’t believe they are breeding FOR slaughter, well, you’re more uninformed than I thought.

        Just think what the rescues can do when they don’t have to use so much of their resources trying to out bid the killers at auctions, or, worse trying to buy them back from the killers themselves. Why, with all that money, they could easily take care of all the horses you pros claim are overrunning the country.

        Clueless, both Duquette AND Wallis have publicly said that they would not accept “unwanted” type horses in their plants. Of course, everyone already knew that human consumption horse slaughter plants wouldn’t take old, sick, worn out, lame, injured, neglected, abused and starved horses, but now even D and W have stopped the charade that they would. So much for this being about equine “welfare.”

    • I learned more about horse slaughter than you will EVER know while I was living in a city – Dallas, Texas, to be exact. Texas had two of these hell-holes, and I and my horses lived between them for 15 years! We were in a professionally run boarding stable in the middle of Dallas with what we thought was good security. But today’s horse thieves are pros at what they do, and they took three horses from the upper barn – where my horse was too – right under the nose of the foreman and the owner.

      They took the horse in the stall next to mine, one across the isle and one down a few stalls. These horses were beloved pets, just like my horse, and the owners were friends of mine. I will NEVER forget the shock and horror we all felt that morning. My horse was still safe in his stall – for whatever reason – but just the thought of those killers being that close to him hit me like a baseball bat to the midsection. I felt so sorry for my friends and their sweet horses. It still makes me cry to think about it and this was in 1991.

      We searched frantically for weeks. That’s how I came to see Dallas Crown. You want to know about horse slaughter? GO AND SEE IT! If you still are for this unconscionable practice after you see what I’ve seen and hear what I’ve heard, well, God help you.

    • Excuse me again, but we don’t have a mess in the US. You must have gotten that from Wallis or some other pro-liar. The abandoned horses we are seeing are the ones that the Mexican slaughter plants have rejected and the kill buyers have abandoned on the spot. And, yes, this is backed up my numerous investigations and USDA’s own records. Our rescues are coming up with innovative idea to help horse owners survive the ECONOMY – which is the problem, Do you live in the US? Whether you do or not, there was NO chaos except among those who are frantic to slaughter horses for $$$$$. The rest of us are – and were – just fine.

      And, there was never a ban on horse slaughter for non-human consumption. There wasn’t a ban on horse slaughter for human consumption as long as you OWNED the horses and were going to eat them yourself or GIVE the meat to relatives and friends – although how one could do such a thing to relative and friends is another thing altogether. You just couldn’t SELL the tainted meat across state lines. NO BAN.

      Have registrations dropped? Last year the AQHA was still paying out breeding incentives. Whatever, haven’t you people understood yet the the US in in the worst recession since the Great Depression? The bottom fell out from under EVERYTHING. Why would you believe horses should be an exception to the law of supply and demand? Sorry, but you’re NOT. The price will recover when the prices of everything else recovers – when the economy recovers, and not before.

      There are a lot more of us who don’t gauge a horse’s worth by how much we can get per pound than there are of you vultures. I don’t know where you live, but here in the US, fully 80% of the people and 71% of horse owners, are strongly against horse slaughter. If our legislators don’t listen to us instead of the special interests this time…. well, this IS an election year and the 80% have HAD IT. You are on the losing side and so are they.

  8. good to know your living a lie spell check or not you got my point! cause that last comment was nothing but personal and nothing to do with horse welfare LOL you are done! try again next time! 😉

    • Whoa, what lie am I living again? That’s the myth all pro-slaughters like to maintain – that we don’t own horses, we all live in the city, and everything we know, we learned online….LOL If I am “done,” you are half-baked. I need a ::facepalm:: emoticon…….

    • No, I guess I didn’t get your point. Did you have one? I already know Duquette and Wallis lie every time they open their mouths. If you want to parrot their lies, well that’s your choice. It’s not my fault you can’t understand supply and demand or that others don’t look at horses as meat on the hoof. Who’s “living a lie?”

  9. Jon – your words “Cause this is the one thing you don’t seem to relize horse slaughter is ment for Worthless horses” – this just showed everyone your view point is from money only – making YOU worthless. Labelling a horse “worthless” is from the view point of the irresponsible owner and pro slaughter, not the rest of society. Your “so-called” worthless horses have gone on to be champions because someone saved them from slaughter and gave them a second chance.

    • So right! And Jon ~ While I don’t live in the city NOW, as I said, I started out as a horse owner while living in my home town of Dallas. I boarded my horses for the 15 years I mentioned until I couldn’t take the stress of worrying about my horse being stolen anymore. My husband and I moved to his native Indiana in 1992 where land was cheap enough for us to have acreage enough that I could keep my horses – I could only afford to board one at the time in Dallas, but now I have two! – at home and even make our own hay.

      For the 15 years I owned horses and lived in the city, I learned about horses from the father/son that owned my boarding stable. They had forgotten more than most people will ever learn about horses and they taught it to me, as well as their other boarders. I daresay, we know FAR more about horses and horse management than any back yard owners I’ve met.
      I mean – the Internet didn’t EXIST!

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  11. I forgot to mention, Jon, that although the number of horses going to slaughter sounds big when you say it, actually it’s only 1% of the population of horses in the US. 1%! That’s not going to make a ripple, let alone bring the equine infrastructure crashing down.

    All I can say is you better learn about markets before July 1, 2013 when the European market drops out from under you. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

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